Curiouser and curiouser

I'm going to shift focus for this post, to Stray's TEFL course, because frankly this is just annoying the crap out of me. Bare with me if you will.

• Stray books a TEFL course, via a booking (UK/US) agent, to be held at CMULI
• I book a one year Thai language course directly with CMULI
• Mine was cancelled recently by the director of IUS. I've since found that IUS, allegedly, is not registered company.
• Stray's course was confirmed around the same time by the director of IUS.
• The booking agent instructed Stray to contact him directly about confirmation of the course, airport taxi and accommodation? All included in his package.
• Stray hears nothing more from the booking agent and time's a wasting, we leave next week. Where does he go, at what time, what does he bring?
• Reply - contact someone, anyone, at http://www.unitefl.com/ ...jing reuu, who are they?
• Whoever they are, the domain name is registered to Chiang Mai University Language Institute (Exactly who is CMULI?).
• As do the other four domains disowned by CMU in their public statement. Note, I didn't name the file in the link.
• According that that statement CMULI = CMU, not IUS.
• Now we have five domains in the picture. Four out of these domains all have the same contact person, the director of IUS, including http://www.unitefl.com/ !
• The CMU public statement also says that all four courses have been cancelled, including TEFL.
• A new geographical location was provided by the booking agent to a friend of mine, who was enquiring about the same TEFL course, a few days ago.
• Now, low and behold, the TEFL course reemerges at a different geographical location, but under the same website registrant, CMULI.

Is it just me? Do I need medicating?


See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Thereputical update

Today I collected my 60 day tourist visa from the Thai Consulate in Brisbane. It was handed to me by a lovely young Thai lady scuffling around the office in a pair of animal (puppy I think) slippers. This is truly a little chunk of TiT in my own home town.

I had been a been a bit nervous, as I don't have an out bound plane ticket, conditional according to their website. And, when we visited on Monday, Stray's Non Immigration visa was processed on the spot. But not mine. Although mine was FREE! Not sure why, some sort of visa sale? probably to encourage tourism after the recent shirt incidents.

Although I really don't want to dwell on the shenanigans that have transpired over the last few weeks (with CMULI), I felt an update was in order...and in some way, verbalising it just makes me feel a bit better.

I started to wonder about my course refund...should I be doing something about it and not just taking one person's word that I will get it within the next 6 months? I should set my own wheels in motion...shouldn't I? A few days ago I emailed the CMU finance and their general address expressing my concerns and provided them with my payment details.

No reply from CMU, so as suggested on Thai Visa, I emailed the Australian Embassy in Bangkok...just to make them aware of the whole ugly mess, especially for those current students who have been left out in the cold...or extreme heat in this case. I received a two line reply a couple of hours later, stating that they had heard about the shamozzle, the involvement of Australians and wished me luck with the pursuit of my refund. OK, no joy there, but I really didn't expect any.

Stray received his police check last week, but mine was delivered on a slow boat from China. Got it! I'm happy to announce I'm not a criminal.

I also contacted my bank to see if I have any way of recouping my deposit, either through them or Visa. They said it's worth a try, even though the transaction was older than 90 days, can't hurt can it? I'll pop in and pick up a form when I bank the illusive cheque from the sale of my shares...if I ever get it...they called today saying they'd lost all of my documentation.  #&^%$!*(&^"

I'm still smiling.

ALMOST The beginning - Wish me luck!

The last few weeks have left me feeling a bit unhinged. For those who have not read the preceding posts, this is a VERY brief summary.

I enrolled in a One Year Thai Language course, at the Language Institute at Chiang Mai University, in May 2010 and have spent the last several months, along with my husband (he'll be doing a TEFL course), packing up our lives.

My course and the Cultural Exchange program were cancelled. Time will tell if I receive a refund for the 15,000 ฿ I paid as a deposit. There are various explanations as to why the two programs were wiped, some of which you can read in the earlier posts.

About four weeks prior to travelling I received the email breaking the bad news and didn't want to rush into parting with any more money while still in Australia, organising another course. So, I'm arriving on a 60 tourist visa and will take it from there. I've made a short list of language schools who offer visa support and will investigate their cirriculums, then make a decision while in Chiang Mai. Because I am arranging this in Thailand, I'll have to fly to Laos or similar and apply for my Non Immigration ED visa.

I was tempted to delete the old posts and start from here, but that wouldn't tell the whole story and they'll remain here for prosperity.

I'll be arriving in Chiang Mai fairly late on the 21st October 2010 and probably won't be posting on this blog until after then...unless something goes terribly wrong on Monday when Stray and I visit the Thai Consulate in Brisbane to apply for our visas.

Wish me luck!

I'm going to??????????????

I received an email from the 'PATT', director of IUS. It's long and arduous, but basically says that my One Year Thai Language course, along with the Language Exchange program has been CANCELLED.

The 'PATT' stated CMU's stance on the whole situation is:

1. LICMU will still not sign visas.
2. LICMU has said there are to be absolutely no classes for foreigners at LICMU after 30 September 2010.
3. IUS has exhausted all its funds in the refunding of courses fees and other expenses due to students because of lack of either a visa or classes.
4. LICMU is refusing to refund any money to students.

The 'PATT' did however say:

In this type of situation, where one partner (LICMU) refuses to meet their obligations to students, it was wrong of me to think that that excuses IUS (or myself) from its continuing responsibilities to our students. It was wrong of me to allow affected students to get handed around like a "hot potato" from IUS to LICMU and back again, with no one taking responsibility for the situation that students - by absolutely no fault of their own - had found themselves in.  I am very sorry and I will do everything in my power to rectify my mistake.

Therefore, IUS (and myself) from this point forward takes full (and personal) responsibility for the further refunding of any fair claim from students either in the Cultural Exchange Program or the 1 Year Thai Language Program.

IUS (and myself) will need some time to refund all monies owed to all students (there are currently close to 300 affected students). However, I believe that IUS can clear ALL monies owing within 180 days.

The TEFL course seems to be intact...for now.

So...it looks like I'm going to my Thai Language course via Laos!

I'm getting dizzy

I had stopped visiting Thai Visa's forum 'CMU fails to provide visa documents' (this forum is up to page five at present), because 1. I  have received my visa support document and 2. it was stressing me out big time.

Read the whole page or forum for that matter. I don't want to get into a quote fest here, but the proverbial is still hitting the fan!

This morning I received an email from Friend (click to read older posts relating to Friend). Even though Friend has their visa stamped in their passport, they asked for an update from the director of IUS, the same 'person at the top' (PATT) I spoke to a few days ago. IUS is a subcontractor, working for CMULI. It appears that the new director of CMULI does not want foreign students attending their campus anymore and merrily refused to stop signing any visa support documents. This has left many students hanging precariously, without visas and are now overstaying.

Not a funny predicament to find yourself in, especially since the penalties have been changed or rearranged. It seems that Thai Immigration will be imposing jail sentences for those who are in the Kingdom, illegally, for 42 days or more. All overstayers will be fined 20,000 Baht as usual.

Even if Friend's visa is stamped snuggly in their passport, that doesn't secure them for the whole year.

Now the Youtube video I found two weeks ago, makes complete sense, as there is no evidence of farang students.

Stray's TEFL course is in the same boat. I have emailed the 'PATT' for a please explain. Even though he assured Friend that our One Year Thai Language courses are still being held, I am feeling very uneasy about the whole situation. I pointed out that combined we have already invested AU$1300.00. If we submit our visa applications to the Thai Consulate we could lose our fees of $450.00, because they're NON refundable.

Again, on Thai Visa, one comment states that IUS is honouring any refunds of 40%, however, CMULI is not dishing out their share of the remaining 60%.

The 'PATT' appears to be an OK sort of guy and if he had any hair at the beginning of this debacle, I'm sure he doesn't have a skerrick left now.

Plan B is looking more and more likely. Apply for a 60 day tourist visa with an outbound flight to Laos. That will give me ample time to find and arrange my course, then apply for our visas outside of Thailand.

Why? Because I flatly refuse to part with any more money from the comfort of my lounge chair (sign up for a course at a different language school) and I have always wanted to go to Laos....or back to Vietnam, or China.

(I wish this was all over, I'm running out of pretty pictures of Chiang Mai)

New web sites and progress

Thanks to a comment on my previous post, I did a bit of digging around.

The Language Institue now has new web sites, which are largely copy and pastes of the old (still existing) sites. A TEFL site at http://tefl-feu.com/ and Thai One Year Course site at http://www.studythai-feu.com/. The address still remains as is and has not been updated to FEU's location...perhaps just an over sight in the early reconstruction of the website?

I received a request for information so my visa document could be organised, late last night and am waiting for my copy.

And here we go again...

14th September

By this evening, I couldn't stand the suspense any longer. I phoned my 'person at the top' and got straight through. Although giving me a completely different explanation to what I have been told or read, said he thought that my visa docs had been sent and that I had been contacted by CMULI. No!!!!

He called me straight back saying that he had spoken to the over worked girls at the office and asked them to fax the Thai Consulate in Brisbane, ASAP, and that I would be forwarded a copy.

He also offered me a discount and a bit of a deal on our accommodation. A very nice bloke and fellow Aussie...but, I have worked with salesmen before. I do empathise with his situation... somewhere between a rock and a hard place, but I have five weeks to secure an ED visa or make alternate plans and have to be selfish at this stage.

Speaking of alternate plans, I had emailed the Walen school an enquiry asking:

I understand that I have to organize my ED visa from outside of Thailand and would be prepared to do so. But, If I arrive on a 30 day tourist (exempt) visa from Australia, the Thai Consulate states I must have an outbound flight booked. If I were (really) planning on staying for one year, how would I explain no outbound flight?

Also, the banner on your site says 'free ED visa', does Walen pay for my visa?

This was there response...two days later:

Normally, if you have non-immigrant visa such as ED, you will be able to travel abroad with a one-way ticket. If you are afraid that the immigration officer will reject that, I would recommend you to buy a promotion return-ticket (short-period ticket) to save your cost.


If you enroll for a 180-lesson Thai Group Course with our school, we will provide the authorized paperwork (official letters) for you @ free of charge. For any other government fees, you would need to pay by yourself.

No disrespect to the Walen school (I may end up there) but I wish ALL language schools would stop this false advertising...none of them pay for your ED Visa.

At about 2.00 am (I couldn't sleep!) I emailed the girl at the CMULI office, requesting confirmation of the above.

15th September

It's 5.30 pm here and still not a peep. I have just sent a polite (จ่ายเย็นเย็น ) text to the person at the top. Within a few seconds I recieved a reply asking for my date of birth...promising?

Now two hours later, I'm publishing this post...oh, and learning how to say Far Eastern University in Thai, because the Language Institute is definitely moving there, from the CMU campus.

The view from the highest point in Thailand

Unsettling course (of) events

Late 13th September

Having not received a reply from 'the top' of CMULI, I resent an email asking for confirmation that my visa document has indeed been forwarded to the Thai Consulate in Brisbane, as advised on the 8th. That email gave me a list of items to send to the consulate, it made no mention of the official visa application form. Since I am still waiting for the police check to be returned, I have not bothered to clarify this.

On Thai Visa, where this blog has been quoted, theories and suggestions are being posted, but the most interesting one is from the originator (who is there right now, facing these visa issues) of the forum topic:

"My source also "at the top" of CMU LI told me a slightly different version of the story. The reason (which was never made public) Thai Immigration was suddenly all over CMU LI was some farang students have committed (or have been accused of committing) some hideous crime, which I would not specify. Because the "farang criminals" got their visas through CMU LI, Thai Immigration, justifiably or not, views the program and its remaining farangs in the LI with suspicion (to say the least). I was told that even if the LI director signs the support letters, Thai Immigration would not accept them right now if we take them to do our visa renewal. To me, Thai Immigration could do their inspection of paperwork and investigation and whatnot, but suspending visa renewal for students in good standing (like myself) and causing all these problems of overstaying... seems to be an overreaction.
... I suppose we just had the misfortune of choosing this school in this country at this time."

I tend to agree. If Thai Immigration has put a head lock on CMU visa approvals, what are they to do?

Sitting (well not really) but, waiting, waiting....

Still in the dark

11th September

My 'friend' (refer earlier post) emailed me saying that they had been advised that CMU LI was moving to Far Eastern University (FEU) and was issuing ED visas to students under that name. Apparently the migration happens on the 13th. I have been told by some, not involved, that it is not unusual for schools to move around.

Neither I or my friend have heard of Far Eastern and I have been reading about Thai Language courses for about 9 months now. In all fairness, if they don't currently offer a Thai Language course, perhaps that's feasible.

So, I sit and wait again for a reply to my email (advising that I am waiting for my police check to be returned) to CMU LI sent on the 8th. The police check is due to be returned in a week or so, and at that time I will post my visa application, leaving only four and a half weeks until our departure!

If the Thai course is moving house, is Stray's TEFL course also? One would think so and I hope that's the case. It's comforting to me that we will be in the same area, in the early days of our stay. I really don't mind if the institute is relocating, I'm still happy to proceed as planned.

12th September

I came across this CMULI promotional video (complete with spelling mistake), uploaded to YouTube only four days ago. Since this member also joined the same day and has uploaded this video only, I ask myself...why? Is it an attempt to resurrect the institute's reputation or is it redefining its purpose?

All very odd considering what 'friend' has just told me.

'We are one of the leading educators in Northern Thailand, we offer: language training courses, preparation courses, editing and translation services, community development programs, enrichment camps and team building programs, international exchange programs as well as educational tour programs."

One year Thai course? TEFL course? Perhaps they fall under 'language training courses'? No sight of any middle aged foreigners, like myself, sitting at those desks or strolling through the grounds.

I continue to practice my mai bpen rais, jai yen yens and smiling.

Feedback on the visa situation

The debate is still raging, questions still be asked and suggestions being given, over at Thai Visa in the forum CMU Fails to provide visa. No definitive answers yet.

However, I received a reply from the person (I'll just call them friend for now) who commented on Thai Visa regarding their concerns obtaining visa docments from CMULI.

Friend too has been looking for answers and had this to say:

'Three weeks ago I enrolled for the one year Thai course starting November. Before registration I asked them several questions and I always got valuable answers within one day. So I could not see any reason why I should not take this course. Unfortunately things changed rapidly right after I sent the money. My emails were ignored, nobody picked up the phone for days, fax did not work. All this is far from normal even if I consider this is Thai-business.'

Friend also found that:
 

• Most comments about CMULI on ThaiVisa have been positive up until recently.
• The website Retire on 550 a month still has a big recommendation of CMULI on their page, but underneath in RED writing is this - NOT RECOMMENDED- contact us for details

• Details given by Retire on 550 a Month  to friend were “We have worked with CMU for several years now and found that they are disorganized, confused, think about their own welfare over their clients and do not do the job that is expected of us or our clients.”

An explaination. Friend had managed (after much effort) to contact someone 'at the top' of CMULI and was told that 'Thai Immigration had a suspicion that CMU was “selling” ED-visas to farangs not attending the courses and stopped all visas to students from CMU, not only language students. Many existing students have now illegal residence permit status as their visa could not be extended. It was a mess. Besides that there was a relevant change in administration staff at CMULI and the new employees are just not yet familiar with the daily business. Up to now they have a backlog of some 200-300 students waiting for their visa paperwork so the staff is completely overstrained. This might be why I got not answers to my emails.

Now there was a inspection at CMULI by Thai Immigration and they agreed that all documentation is correct and Visa will be issued again starting next Wednesday, 8. September.'
Friend was 'guaranteed that the course in November will be running and I will get the visa papers by end of next week (he would put my name somewhere on the top of the backlog). And of course I get a full refund if my Visa is refused.'

All of this may not be the most comforting news, but it is good to know what exactly is going on...just incase I have to change tack. CMULI is still advertising their four Thai Language courses as including a one year visa.

Using the one year visa as a draw card is a little ambiguious. In the CMULI FAQ section you will find:

What are the visa fees?

The first visit to the Thai embassy or immigration will cost 1,900 Baht.

I think in most cases, with other schools also, that the visa costs are NOT included and appears not at CMULI either, even though most give you the impression that they are, in their advertising.

Some Learn Thai course providers clearly outline what is required regarding the ED Visa and assistance/support. AUA  spells it out in black and white, well blue and pink actually.

Perhaps more information should be given to foreigners on the ins and outs of the costs and procedures! Call me crazy, but, in my book visa docs does not equal a visa or its costs.

One of the other 'feelers' I sent out came back with positive feedback regarding CMULI, but perhaps is unaware of the current dilema. He has been heavily involved with Learn Thai courses in Chiang Mai for many years and once taught at CMU.

There were positive comments on Thai Visa regarding some of the teachers and course at CMULI, which was refreshing. No matter where you decide to learn or which course is undertaken, the consensus seems to be that the success of the teachings/learnings is largely due to the quality of the teacher and the dedication of the student, not so much the institution.

Me, I haven't heard back from CMULI, but didn't expect to having only sent my email on a Friday night and today is only Sunday. I too will be contacting the 'person at the top' later this week, if I do not receive a reply regarding my visa documents.

A little obsessed about the whole visa thing you might say, well maybe, but I leave the country in 6 weeks and need to get this sorted soon. No matter the outcome, I'm still looking forward to learning Thai at CMULI or elsewhere.