Thai Language Schools - First impressions, from a distance

WARNING - this post will be incredibly boring for those who aren't looking for a Thai Language course in Chiang Mai.

Since the slow and painful death of my Thai Language course I've been trying to flush out the best alternative over the Internet. I know, I know, all may not be what it seems, but, I've contacted a few via email anyway. I'm looking for an equivalent course = One Year Thai Language course with visa support.

First impressions go a long way, but they are by no means the full picture!

Walen - email response time, 2 days, both times. I questioned the need for an outbound flight (*an apparent requirement of entering LOS on a tourist visa) and also about their banner advertising, stating a "'free ED visa', does Walen pay for my visa?"
Pros -They provided clear and concise information, answering only the questions I asked and provided no extra information. Courses start every week.
Cons - I haven't read very positive reviews about their actual Thai Courses and no, they don't pay for the Ed Visa. Also, part of their banner advertising states 'unlimited stay in Thailand'?????
Website - well constructed, easy to navigate and multi lingual
Lessons/cost - 180 x 50 minute lessons for 24,960 Baht
Refund policy - '100% refund if your Ed Visa is denied.'
Class size - minimum of 5 students to open a class

Pro Language - email response time, same day. Extensive details provided, outlining the visa procedures, class hours and prices.
Pros - I have read positive reviews about Pro Language on the Internet.
Cons - none that I've found
Website - well designed, easy to follow and available in a few different languages.
Lessons/cost - 180 lessons x ? minutes for 25,000 Baht
Refund policy - No terms and conditions that I could find, although I was sent some by email. 'If MOE did not approve your documents, deposit will be refunded 100  %.'
Class size - 4-6 students
If you'd like to know a little more first hand, visit Talen's Thailand Land of Smiles. Talen is currently attending Pro Language in Pattaya.

The lesser known (to me) Cornerstone Coaching Centre - email response time, same day. Extensive details provided after asking for more, outlining visa procedures, class hours and prices.
Pros and cons - not enough information on the Internet to form any opinions, although I'm never keen on organisations that use hotmail email addresses. Having said that, their email responses were quick.
Website - menu links were broken, so very hard to navigate.
Lessons/cost - 'student who need a visa, need to buy 200 hrs @ 150.-baht for a whole course and the total is 30,000 baht for a tuition fee plus process fee 5,000 baht (for single)'
Refund policy - No mention of refund terms and conditions.
Class size - can't find it anywhere

Payap University - Unfortunately I have not contacted Payap, but have read good things about their course. I hope to pay them a visit next week.
Pros - none so far
Cons - Only term/condition I found was 'All fees are nonrefundable except when the course is cancelled'. A bit unsettling if your visa is rejected.
Website - easy to get around.
Lessons/cost - 'Two successive courses in one enrollment (120 hours), visa, handouts and application fees included 20,200 Baht'
Refund policy - couldn't find one
Class size - 6 - 12 students

AUA (American University Alumni) Language Centre. Sorry to say I haven't contacted AUA, but there is quite a bit of info out on the net. The Chiang Mai Centre has their own website, why, I'm not sure. Visit WLT for more info on their teaching techniques.
Pros - this language centre has been established for many, many years. In CM, since 1985.
Cons - see Refund Policy
Website - more than one?? one per location.
Lessons/cost - maybe you can work it out
Refund policy - Deposit the full tuition fee into our bank account. These fees are non-refundable and non-transferable.
Class size - at least 5 paying students to open

Well....I hope this has helped someone? If not, I'm sure all is as clear as mud by now! Hopefully I'll have made my choice by the end of next week.

*I was never questioned about NOT having an outbound flight at the Thai Consulate in Brisbane.

 See what else we're up to at Cooee!

I'm getting dizzy

I had stopped visiting Thai Visa's forum 'CMU fails to provide visa documents' (this forum is up to page five at present), because 1. I  have received my visa support document and 2. it was stressing me out big time.

Read the whole page or forum for that matter. I don't want to get into a quote fest here, but the proverbial is still hitting the fan!

This morning I received an email from Friend (click to read older posts relating to Friend). Even though Friend has their visa stamped in their passport, they asked for an update from the director of IUS, the same 'person at the top' (PATT) I spoke to a few days ago. IUS is a subcontractor, working for CMULI. It appears that the new director of CMULI does not want foreign students attending their campus anymore and merrily refused to stop signing any visa support documents. This has left many students hanging precariously, without visas and are now overstaying.

Not a funny predicament to find yourself in, especially since the penalties have been changed or rearranged. It seems that Thai Immigration will be imposing jail sentences for those who are in the Kingdom, illegally, for 42 days or more. All overstayers will be fined 20,000 Baht as usual.

Even if Friend's visa is stamped snuggly in their passport, that doesn't secure them for the whole year.

Now the Youtube video I found two weeks ago, makes complete sense, as there is no evidence of farang students.

Stray's TEFL course is in the same boat. I have emailed the 'PATT' for a please explain. Even though he assured Friend that our One Year Thai Language courses are still being held, I am feeling very uneasy about the whole situation. I pointed out that combined we have already invested AU$1300.00. If we submit our visa applications to the Thai Consulate we could lose our fees of $450.00, because they're NON refundable.

Again, on Thai Visa, one comment states that IUS is honouring any refunds of 40%, however, CMULI is not dishing out their share of the remaining 60%.

The 'PATT' appears to be an OK sort of guy and if he had any hair at the beginning of this debacle, I'm sure he doesn't have a skerrick left now.

Plan B is looking more and more likely. Apply for a 60 day tourist visa with an outbound flight to Laos. That will give me ample time to find and arrange my course, then apply for our visas outside of Thailand.

Why? Because I flatly refuse to part with any more money from the comfort of my lounge chair (sign up for a course at a different language school) and I have always wanted to go to Laos....or back to Vietnam, or China.

(I wish this was all over, I'm running out of pretty pictures of Chiang Mai)

Total Visa costs - applying within Australia

OUR Visa costs for the (Thai) Non Immigration Visa, applying within Australia. This visa covers the first 90 days, at which time a visit to Thai Immigration is required, to apply for an extension. Presently that cost is ฿1,900.

*The information below pertains to Stray and I, you should follow any instructions that are applicable to your situation and as advised by your relevent organisation. Prices are in Australian dollars and are per person.

Passport photos - $10.00 - $15.00 (only 2 required)
Express Postage - $9.00
Police Check - 'Name Only' (a Blue Card could also acceptable) - $43.00
Our local police advised that the Thai Consulate often rejects their checks and for us to apply directly with the Australian Federal Police. Application form available online. Approximately a 15 working day turn around, from the time they receive it.

Non Immigrant Visa - Multiple Entry - $225.00. Information on the Thai Consulate website, where you can also download the application form. This form is different to that on the Sydney consulate's site.

Registered postage with proof of receipt - $? - not sure, as we will be taking ours in personally. I called the consulate today and they advised that if all our documents were in order,  it would only take one hour to process.

Total - around AU$292.00 each

Note - on the visa application form downloaded from the Brisbane consulate it asks for a guarantor, both local and in Thailand. A guarantor in this case refers to your next of kin. List them accordingly, or not, if you don't have one.

Now we wait for Stray's police check to arrive. I don't need one but applied anyway, just in case. He'll need his, because his TEFL will hopefully lead to a job teaching children. I called the AFP today and they advised that it was still being processed.

Good news?

Stray (who will be attending the 4 week TEFL course) received an email from someone high up at CMU so I decided to email them with my concerns...the suspense was killing me. I stated that I have had no reply to my email sent on the 3rd September and am growing concerned about what I am reading on the Internet and the absence of my visa document.

I received a less than 24 hour response, stating that my visa doc will be sent directly to the consulate tomorrow (faxed) and for me to also send my application etc.

 *post edit - We will have to wait until we have received our police checks, before sending our visa applications to the Thai Consulate.

It appears to be good news at this stage and had I not been so inquisitive, the last couple of posts would not exist...and I don't need justification of what I've read, I'm just ecstatic that the ball seems to rolling again.

Fingers crossed!

Revisiting the CMU LI Website

Since I first enrolled in my course, the website has been revamped, so I went back for a closer look for my own benefit, but you might also be interested.

As I mentioned in my first post, the One Year Learn Thai course costs ฿30,000. The course outline states I attend for 180 hours and at 4 hours per week (2 x 2 hours), so I will be attending for 45 weeks out of the 52. Seven weeks of holidays?

This equates to just (*post edit) under AU$6.00 per hour, depending on the rate of exchange at the time. Not bad!

Information on the website I didn't find previously:

Terms and conditions

Refunds - Previously CMU assured me by email it was OK to defer, but evidently, not to pull out of the course completely, without losing my deposit of ฿15,000 *see Visa info below. That's over AU$500.00. The balance, of the same amount, is due on arrival. If I start the course and decide not to continue, I lose all of my payment of ฿30,000.

This seems quite harsh to me. Usually a college or university will give a partial refund according to how much of the course has been attended/has remaining.

Dress code for teachers and students: Collared shirt, Slacks, Dress Shoes.

I have no problem with this at all, although I am sure I read somewhere, perhaps on another website, that dress is casual and was described as 'not uncommon for students to dress like they were at a resort'.

English - You have to have a basic level of English to be able to attend the course. However, there is a Thai course for Japanese.

Course Times - The website now displays the course times.

Nov 1st 2010 Mon & Wed 5:30pm - 7:30pm
Dec 2nd 2010 Tues & Thurs 5:30pm - 7:30pm
Jan 4th 2011 Tues & Thurs 5:30pm - 7:30pm
Feb 2nd 2011 Mon & Wed 5:30pm - 7:30pm

Looks like I'll be having dinner at the Uni.

Visa - The tuition fee DOES NOT cover the cost of the ED Visa. An ED visa is a Non-B Education visa that allows a visitor to Thailand to remain in the country while they are studying. If the Thai embassy rejects my visa, CMU will provide a full refund minus a ฿1,000 processing charge.

The Thai Embassy (Australian) website seems to have no information specifically on the ED Visa. I have read elsewhere that I will be required to obtain 'permission to stay stamp' every 90 days and currently (still) have no idea of costs etc.

Student Testimonials - None at present, however there is a Blog section, which I will revisit and read.

Mailing List - I have signed up to receive the newsletter by email.

Enrolling from abroad

Here I've listed the process leading up to my departure in October 2010. I have enrolled in the One Year Thai Course at the Language Institute based at Chiang Mai University. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments.

Firstly, why did I choose Chiang Mai University - CMU?
To be honest, because I was organising this from Ausltralia, rightly or wrongly, I felt safer dealing directly with the University rather than another organisation. Besides, I've actually seen CMU, so I know it exists. Also, I thought an accreditation (if there is such a thing) from a University would/might have more validity than from elsewhere?

Why the Thai Language Course?
Obviously, I really like Thailand and it's people and would love to be able to communicate on less of a 'tourist' level. I'm an artist and love the Thai script, not to mention the food and culture. (I could also do with a change in my life right now). The course also covers other aspects of Thai life and secures my Visa for the duration, which is a giant headache I won't have to deal with whilst there.

"In addition to a solid grounding in Thai communication skills, students will also explore many of the most important parts of contemporary Thai culture. Every week will include an in-depth look at several of these topics: Buddhism, Thai traditional medicine, "Sanook" (fun), current events, and Thailand's place in the world. The classes will include many excursions to temples and villages, as well as unique and interesting guided self-study opportunities." - CMU

How much was the course?
The total cost of the course for the year is 30,000 Baht. The deposit required to secure enrollment is 15,000 Baht. The balance is due on the first day of class. CMU sends an email with the amount payable and a link to their payment page. Once the deposit has been paid, CMU will email the reciept. For peace of mind I paid the deposit via Paypal.

What if something happens and I can't attend on my planned date?
My question exactly during the Red Shirt drama earlier this year. The Uni's response to my question regarding deferral:

"In fact, we allow for deferral for up to a year. Please make sure you give 30 days notice however as we try to determine the number of students attending the course and how many teachers are needed. Once the balance is paid in full, the course can be deferred up until the first day of class without any problems." - CMU


How many hours a week will I be attending the course?
"The Chiang Mai University 1 year Thai language courses always start in the first week of every month and are held in the evenings from 5:30 - 7:30, on either Tuesday and Thursday or Monday and Wednesday or Saturday and Sunday mornings 10-12. 2 hours per class, 2 classes per week, over the course of the entire year. The exact days the classes will be held on are set about 3 months in advance." - CMU

Where will I live?
My circumstances are a little different than others. Stray's TEFL course, also at CMU, is organised slightly cheaper by TAT  (which we found out later is highly regarded by CMU) and includes accommodation. We will be staying whereever TAT has incorporated into his package, for the first month or so. However, the Uni did reccommend Sa-nguan Malee, starting at 5,000 Baht per month.

What's the go with my Visa?
The following is what CMU advised:

I am enrolled in the November Thai 1 Year Language Course and the Uni Co-ordinator has my visa paperwork scheduled according to this date. A visa application cannot be filed too early before entry as it will be rejected. I can enter the country about 1 month before the course start date on a standard tourist visa. My other (48 week) visa paperwork can be started about 2 months before the course start date thus allowing me to obtain my visa about 1 month before my departure. So, in my case the Uni will process my visa paperwork around the beginning of September.

Information which has been provided to the CMU by email.
1. Departure Date
2. Name "exactly" as it appears on the Passport
3. Passport Expiry Date
4. Royal Thai Embassy that I will be visiting/mailing to in Australia.

May 2010 - to date CMU has been professional and a pleasure to deal with.